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[Simon_Jeeha]

Lets start a new thread, the old one is outdated, full of quite a bit of back and forth i have lost track

I propose on this new thread we have everyone who actually lost something because of fynal speak up here and have those claims addressed by fynal

claims should be over getting killed or having property destroyed or stolen, technically mean words aren't considered harm in my view and can easily be avoided by ignoring someone and also fynal was kicked out of global chat when he was too out of line so you don't even necessarily have to worry about prolonged verbal abuse harming your rep or anything.

so person or property damage claims, if you want to say what it will take to reconcile your differences with him share that too, but try to keep the requests within reason, for example if he killed you as a day 1 newb and you didn't really lose anything of value other than a few minutes.. then you know, keep that in mind.

lets try and keep the thread free of 'he said, she said' back and forth, just dry facts of damages and what it will take to reconcile

Thanks

[SavanahMile]

I have a claim that is easily resolved:  AF Prison world.  You fix something, but not restore it, how is that fair to me?
I have not verified but I'm being told my shop has area has been repaired.  I was told it was repaired before, only to break one block and see the huge cavity below it was not filled in with smooth stone.
So I had stone all stone under my area, and now it might be filled in with cobble, which is easier to break, so technically it is not repair to the state it was before, in a violent world the smooth stone is an extra layer of protection to protect my shop.  Fynal is the only one to MAKE?? tnt in the prison world and start blasting the place up.    Final comment, Sorry to say,  I have a zero tolerance for griefing, killing horses that people took a lot of time to breed for racing speeds is pointless and destruction of property that is irreplaceable, so until things cool down Fynal is restricted from any of my properties on any of the maps for a time I deem except-able to me.   This should not effect him at all, since he has his own place on surveying map.  All of my properties are heavily snitched protected, and this violation would be a pearl-able offense to me.  

Second claim on Surveying world:  I did have to use a pearl to pearl you on Surveying since you would not stop attacking the new players. I would like my pearl replaced.

Question 1: So only property claims are going to be handled on this thread?
how does one covert emotional into property value as it is in the real world?  Example:  Simply if I don't trust you,  I don't do business with you? or I ignore you? or I state you can not trespass on my property?  I just want to know how that is handled since Skylands is beefing up a huge mall area for shops and Fynal and Frozen do have a shop there but technically this property is Jonin's.  I think this should be discussed concluded and then added to this thread.  I am only asking so we are not setting Fynal up for failure in this area.  I can not imagine Jonin having an issue with Frozen restocking her shop for the time being, but I would expect Jonin would impose an access restriction to Fynal.   I am guessing at this point, but wanted to address this so everyone is clear upfront.   I hope this is helpful Simon and Zombienerd.

[FynalSlash]

I guess I will have to have frozenjars come get the shop and contents and we will stay out of all the villages thereafter. I will replace the pearl, of course, as soon as Jonin restores my property to me.

[SavanahMile]

One more question:

There is the Justice Council on AF world, but there is not one instated on Surveying world yet, Simon, Jonin, others, so how would one parley for their pearl on Surveying world? 

[Simon_Jeeha]

we can worry about those on another thread if need be, lets just worry about claims here

[zombienerd]

Fynal has told me that the prison world has been restored to 100% original condition.

He has stated that he would have frozen remove his shop from the Skylands mall.

I recommend release from AF prison to repay the other items required.

As to Sav's Question, I think Rothbardian property rights can apply here, if party #1 states they don't want party #2 on their claimed land, they have right to use force to prevent such trespass if party #2 does not abide by the request.  Parties may post signs or communicate in another fashion that their claimed / developed land is off limits.  This can also apply to personal communication.  /ignore feature and/or request to not be directly contacted in any way.  Violations of that could be considered NAP violations as well.

Side thoughts from my philosophical mind during all of this:

Voluntary interaction in a voluntary world.  In real life, I can surely exile someone I don't like from my life, but I cannot exile them from the planet unless they aggress upon me to the point where I feel deadly force is required.

Ability to respawn adds a measure of complexity to real life questions.  If I killed someone in real life who was trying to harm me, and they immediately came back to life, I'd probably just try to kill them again immediately.  I am unsure at what point I would stop trying.  I'm sure I would stop wasting my ammunition and effort at some point, and try for a different resolution.  I'm unsure what that resolution would be, but would most likely be monetary or labor until I felt whole again.

These and other philosophical questions are available any time, feel free to pick my brain.

[SavanahMile]

OMG Zombienerd you are so funny.

I will make sure their are signs on all my claimed lands, and they will be snitch protected.

We consider a claim also valid if you have started working the land,
it could be in a raw land state, but you cleared all the grass and started reforming it in preparations for future build or current build, or a natural sanctuary look, basically adding value to the land.

Zombienerd please talk to your client over this matter, but I really do not want to see any squabbling over  fynalSlash's "said property" he quit dumped in in the chests on the ship for any noob to grab and keep, and jonin trying to help retrieved it and put what he found in chests.  So Fynal should be thankful if he gets anything back, as I would have kept what I found dumped on a ship from a quit player.  Just saying.  Free stuff is free stuff.

Have there been any other restrictions or comments about his release discussed?
No trespassing that includes both maps, he will use /ignore in future, and what are his expectations?
I pearled him on surveying world, I have access to the pearl I am not going to be very available today, busy day, I understand you all are planning for a Saturday release anyway.

Notes to all Global Chat is a privilege not a right, freed greifers and unpearled people in the past were not granted back Global chat a matter of fact the global and local chat system was put in place because of such offenders.  You can make a channel and ask others to join and there is local chat for anyone in your area.  Good things come to those who wait, I will find out more information on this, as I have never had to remove anyone before from Global.  There are notes on the website about the chat system to create and add players.

Is he being released with terms or expectations? Like do not trespass on Savanah, Jonin, or LordRagnarock's property? or who ever?
Has that been spelled out anywhere?

He owes me a pearl and something for my trouble would be nice, but I did not negotiate that.  
I would love a chest full of smooth stone or iron to help protect my properties better.  ahahah

[zombienerd]

I think that would be fair if he agrees.  Fynal, do you agree that upon release you are not to trespass on lands of Sav, Jonin, and Lynnch (LordRagnarock), that you owe Savanah an ender pearl?  I can be a mediator for the exchange if necessary.  I would say that others may make the same claim of no-trespass and it should be respected without question, agreed?  If you want to appeal the chat ban, that's another fight for another time, I'd think. 

I mentioned the fact that he had dropped his items saying he was quitting, and he said that there was an agreement between him and Jonin for said property to be return to him, I'm not sure of the details of what, if anything, was promised there.  Being that Jonin does not wish to further converse, perhaps a 3rd party can negotiate and/or mediate there.

I had set up a private channel last night as it was easier than /tell.  If he is still in that channel, anyone desiring communications with him when he's online can "/join Private a"

I didn't think I was quite his "lawyer". I was just seeking resolution one way or another.  None of this is in my hands, and it is not my decision to make.  I was just begging the questions and passing along info.

As an aside, I'm not sure that physical signs would be necessary stating "no trespassing" as long as your name is somewhere on the property.  I don't know how to best deal with it, honestly.  Especially for 'secret bases' and the like.  Sometimes I don't want to leave my name on the door.  Maybe a discussion for another time?

[FynalSlash]

I reaffirm my agreement not to willingly or knowingly trespass and my promise to repay all claims upon the return of my property, as Jonin had agreed to, and since as he stated over and over, none of the reasons for my being held had anything to do with him. His not personally liking me should negate neither the contract of his word nor my property rights, as we both agreed to that and I'd be perfectly willing to help him however I can in the future anyway. But, as for now, I have debts to repay and rebuilding to do.

I have no contention against the chat ban.

[SavanahMile]

Global chat and local were created because of an incident just like this Global chat is again not a privilege.

[FynalSlash]

Again, no contention over that. Understood.

[Jonin420]

we didn't agree to anything I told you I put your stuff in a chest and you started with the personal attacks until I /ignored you I wll think about returning it

[Commander]

it's been spelled out pretty clearly for awhile now

if he owes anybody anything and they want it back, it must be returned and fixed

includes giving a pearl to savanah

trespassing on people's property is a universally understood given that doing so is against the NAP

[FynalSlash]

You being butthurt about things said doesn't mean you have the right to keep things you told me yourself you'd return to me. That's not how that works. "I didn't like the things you said after that" doesn't mean "I get to keep your stuff after I said I'd return it." No.

[FynalSlash]

This is not high school. This is a thread for definitive resolution. Not "I'll think about it. You said mean things."
Free speech negates neither your own word nor my property rights. So, be clear. Either say you refuse to return my things to me, or that you will. Nothing else is really constructive to post here.