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[Intangir]

also i didnt say anything about any personal stuff to anyone
you've replied before with personal stuff on my facebook threads for anyone to see before though. i wouldn't have recommended it, but i don't see how that has anything to do with this context either

my advice is for you to make a clear list of complaints of actual violations she has made to you or your property, if there aren't any then you need to ask yourself if SHE really has ANYTHING to do with what is eating at you

[Commander]

^

[anoddhue]

That cobble tower thing sure is ugly.

[Shaman]

[ author=anoddhue link=topic=2561.msg17649#msg17649 date=1371853417]
That cobble tower thing sure is ugly.
[/]

Which one?

I've built more than 20.

[SavanahMile]

The New Haven 

[anoddhue]

The New Haven one, to be sure.

However, despite my complaint, I am still an anarchist since I did not attempt to force you to take it down. I merely let my opinion known.

Similarly, has anyone else on this server attempted to force you to do anything? If so, you may have a legitimate complaint.

If not, well, that cobble tower sure is ugly.

[Commander]

      Any of the three New Haven managers are ,indeed, able to force Shaman to remove that cobble edifice. Given that it isn't anarchy.

[Simon_Jeeha]

what are you talking about commander?

if anyone had forced him to take it down, it wouldn't still be up
and i have barely been on
and i believe its been answered NUMEROUS times that voluntarily accepting conditional TERMS of VOLUNTARY interaction is NOT the same as rulership and is compatible with voluntaryism..

[Commander]

     What don't you understand?
Any of the three managers can make anyone remove something in NH because you all are authorities of NH. You three started the city. How many times have I answered that I am aware it's COMPLETELY voluntary, but it is NOT anarchy.

     You know authority figures and anarchy don't mix, right?
Yes it's voluntary agreeing to rules. That's anarchy. but wait, who's enforcing the rules? Oh right, the managers... Or in other words "authority figures". That's when the anarchy stops.

[Intangir]

what part of voluntary aren't you getting

authority the word, is defined and used in alot of different ways

no one HERE is using it but YOU

why dont YOU define authority for us, and tell us if in your context, an authority is a ruler

authority could mean an expert on a subject, like an authority on home gardening, that wouldn't make him a ruler

an authority could be a source of authorship, like a publishing authority

an authority could be someone chosen to handle a project, like the project manager is the authority on client to client protocols..

an authority could be someone who you voluntarily do business with, like the home owner is the authority when it comes to how his property will be managed even while its rented

an authority could be someone who arbitrarily chosen by some non-voluntary method, like an election, a coincidence of birth, "the gods", skin color... whatever, this is the ONLY form of 'authority' that implies a RULERSHIP

RULERSHIP is FORCEFUL CONTROL OF PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL

when 'rulership' is voluntary, its not force, its not against their will, it isnt rulership

so you can TOTALLY have ALL FORMS of above authority EXCEPT the LAST, in an anarchy, because only the last involves rulership, anarchy is no RULERS, anarchy does not mean no authority


your making the logical fallacy of equivocation, misusing/bending/stretching the meaning of the term from usage to usage..

if we were to try and form a society with no central fiat monetary systems, would it make sense to say 'well we cant have any rivers either, because rivers have banks'

[Commander]

        Clearly I'm not talking about home gardening here. In my mind, "authority" means a person of higher rank over the general public (in this case over citizens of NH). It's fine to be the head of a business. It's also quite alright to have rivers with banks. Those examples are irrelevant because one contains a career, and the other contains an in-animate object.... Someone higher in power able to tell regular citizens how to live is what disturbs me. Even if it's entirely voluntary. There are 3 people in NH who enforce their rules.

        It's palpable that we have different views of the word "anarchy".

[Intangir]

ya we have different views
mine are clear
and yours are not

if your going to mock my attempts to define and give examples of semantics then i am not going to waste any more of my time on it
and i am not going to be too considerate of your emotions or ego on the matter either

your wrong, ive clearly explained why, you want to be difficult and ignore the facts then don't waste my fucking time

i don't argue fictions, i dont argue for the sake of argument and i don't bend my facts of reality to meet the whims of whatever mislabel im trying to misapply for the sake of a completely FAILED ARGUMENT

your using alot of words you don't understand, your not defining any of your terms
citizen? what citizens? there are no citizens in anarchy
higher power? power over what? their own property? everyone has higher power over some things, so no one is an anarchist by your vague definition

how far do you want to take it? im running the server, obviously i have power over things on the server, so should i therefore never get to claim to be an anarchist because i run a voluntary service? and control the terms of interaction across this gaming medium which runs on my physically owned hardware?

are you a ruler because you have higher power over your own body and home?

make some sense, make some consistent sense, and if you don't, don't be so damn obstinate when someone is trying to help you clarify it

im not wasting anymore of my time explaining this to you, if you persist in mislabeling me i am going to start taking it very personal, you have no excuse

perhaps ill just start calling you things that any reasonable examination would prove you AREN'T, and when you disagree ill just say 'in my mind' whatever bullshit


rules, or voluntarily agreed to terms are not rulership, and they are compatible with anarchy

[Intangir]

to clarify im already taking it personal

very personal. you know damn well that anarchists don't particular appreciate being called rulers, and your implying thats what im doing

im not forcing anyone to do anything, i couldn't even if i wanted to

so repeatedly implying that i am a ruler is really becoming insulting

[Simon_Jeeha]

i am pretty sure we've had this same back and forth back when they moved to dragon's perch

if you don't respect a person as being the authority over their own property, your not respecting their property rights, your not respecting their time, effort, their person, your basically asserting an authority over them

complete anti-authoritarianism is self contradictory, the only anti-authoritarianism that isn't contradictory is anti-authoritarianism that is against arbitrary (unearned, involuntary, unreasonable) authority

[vbelac]

Just to emphasize, Pedro and I are attached at the hip; not the brain. I'm with Intangir and Simon on this one.. Pedro just loves arguing for the sake of arguing, it isn't worth trying.